Sunny Rodgers
Podcast Transcript Season 1 Episode 11
Interviewer: Liz Goldwyn
Liz Goldwyn: Hello. Welcome to The Sex Ed. I'm your host Liz Goldwyn, founder of thesexed.com, your number one source for sex, health, and consciousness education. Our guest today is Sunny Rodgers, clinical sexologist, certified sex coach, sex educator, ordained minister and, among many, many other things, a regular contributor to thesexed.com.
Sunny started out in the aerospace industry before she switched from designing rockets to designing dildos. After nearly two decades in the pleasure product industry, she uses her professional training and experience to help teach the masses how to reach their intimate pleasure potential. Sunny and I cover a lot of ground in this one, so you may want to take notes. Sunny tells me all about non-gender sex toys, pleasure product care and the sex tech of the very near future.
Liz Goldwyn: We're here today with Sunny Rodgers who's a clinical sexologist, a sex coach, a sex educator, ambassador to the American Health Association, an ordained minister and has been in the sex toy industry since 2000. Welcome.
Sunny Rodgers: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Liz Goldwyn: Excited to have you. Your career spans literally the range of sexual health. How did you first get into the field?
Sunny Rodgers: By accident. It was actually licensing, and I ended up working for a sex toy manufacturer. I didn’t know it was a sex toy manufacturer that I walked into when I had my first interview, but I was so happy that that's what it ended up being and it just felt like the right place. And this industry is so tiny and so small and everybody knows each other and it’s also kind of incestuous but we also all take care of each other and it's become my family and that's what I'm most happy about.
Liz Goldwyn: What did you think you were going in to an interview for?
Sunny Rodgers: I knew it was licensing but because I have an aerospace background, I thought it was going to be something along those lines. So I thought it was going to be more gyroscopes or airplane parts.
Liz Goldwyn: So your aerospace background was in what exactly?
Sunny Rodgers: Licensing, inertial navigation devices for satellite platforms and getting them licensed through the Department of Defense.
Liz Goldwyn: From Department of Defense to vibrators.
Sunny Rodgers: Right. From rockets to pocket rockets. (Both laugh)
Liz Goldwyn: What's your favorite part of the job?
Sunny Rodgers: Being creative. Being able to think of something that will give people pleasure, and then walking it through the design process with the CAD designers and the 3D printing, and then seeing it actually make it to market.
Liz Goldwyn: What's the name of the company that you work for?
Sunny Rodgers: I work for Diamond Products and they have the brands Pipedream Products, Jimmyjane and Sir Richard's Condom Company.
Liz Goldwyn: You we're telling me the other day that you sent your mom a package of sex toys.
Sunny Rodgers: I did. I was nervous when I first got the job in 2000 and I was afraid to tell anybody what I did. When people asked I would tell them I worked for a lingerie company, because we made panties, vibrating panties, but I didn't tell anybody that part. So I sent her a nice little goodie package. And these were very demure items, like a little butterfly and a little classic vibe. I mean very demure. And I get a call and she's in tears and it's because she just experienced her first orgasm after being married for 30 years.
Liz Goldwyn: That’s amazing.
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah. That's when my life changed. I knew this is really what I have to do. I have to help more people have orgasms. I mean, now she's so cute because she's like, "When do I get my next one?" So every couple of years she gets a new box of goodies.
Liz Goldwyn: You have to space it out?
Sunny Rodgers: I don't want to corrupt my mother, you know. (Laughs) Like there's somethings she never thought of. She would never think that there were sex dolls and she would never think that glass would go anywhere near your private parts, God forbid. And it's just funny how, everyone --including my era, your era-- they learn about sex in such odd ways. There's not really sexual education. For my mother's era they just have no idea. And it's kind of sad.
Liz Goldwyn: What was your sex education?
Sunny Rodgers: This is kind of funny because someone just asked me this question, like how far back can I remember something? And I remember playing dirty, dirty games with my Barbie dolls and my Ken in the bathtub. Having siblings, that was my only private space. So I knew putting them together was something special and from there it was mostly around kids from school.
Liz Goldwyn: Not in school. Not at class.
Sunny Rodgers: Not in the schools. No. They taught me what boobs were. I remember there was music, there was a song called Shake Your Booty. I went to ask my mom and I said, "What's booty?" She goes, "That's pirate's treasure." I said, "That's the strangest song I just don't get it." But then all my friends at school said booty is actually your butt. I'm like, "Oh!"
I think sixth grade was when I started learning the different terms for your body and how they went together and pleasure and all that. I do remember at that point having my favorite pillow and being woken up in the middle of the night. I think I was like 13 years old and it was my first orgasm when I was sleeping. And I had been sleeping on my stomach with my pillow under me and all I know is I wanted to have that happen over and over again, but I didn't really know what it was and there was no one I could talk to.
Liz Goldwyn: I think a lot of young people have that experience with their pillows and orgasms (both laugh) and unexpectedly. You really got into the other aspects of the sex field through this job in the sex toy industry.
Sunny Rodgers: I did.
Liz Goldwyn: That was entrée.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: And you've been working in the sex toy industry for almost 20 years.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: And from what I've understood from you, it seems to be largely male dominated as an industry.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes it is.
Liz Goldwyn: Why is that so?
Sunny Rodgers: It's an old school industry. The company that I worked for, they started making small rubber products and head shop items and when I had worked for Doc Johnson, same thing. It was like mailorder items and fish lures, and then some of the fish lures that were rubber also allowed them make rubber cock rings and things like that.
So I think it came from an industry where men started it and that's just the way it's been because it's so tight knit, but now with Kickstarter and GoFundMe, if a woman has a really good idea and she wants to bring it to market, she can find a way to do it. And that's really exciting.
Liz Goldwyn: There's a lot of great, smaller brands run by women but you were telling me as well that even on the design side there is very few women across the board designing sex toy products.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: Particularly sex toy products that are marketed towards women.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. I would say 35% honestly and that might actually be generous at this point, but I'm putting in all of the newbies. There's a couple women, most prominent is Susan Colvin and she owns California Exotics and they're based in Chino Hills. And she's been in this business for over 25 years. She's amazing. I applaud her. Her second-in-command is Jackie White and together they really built their own female-oriented empire.
And I also want to say when I started with Topco Sales, which is still here --all of these companies, they don’t go away, they keep reinventing themselves or becoming bigger-- with Topco, I was placed under the wing of a woman called Jane Liszewski. I want to say she was the power behind Marty Tucker who started the company and she was the first person I ever saw who said, "Let's create female products inspired by women, created by women, designed by women for women."
It was so new at that point. That was the early 2000s that a lot of women weren’t really consumers. That's changed now. Now women are the main percentage of consumers in this industry.
Liz Goldwyn: I would imagine that over the years as gender fluid, non-binary, trans, desire for sex toys came into the marketplace, there's been more toys manufactured targeted to towards those demographics or is it still more heteronormative?
Sunny Rodgers: What has changed most is-- this is kind of funny, I don't know how to really truly explain it, but we don't make lesbian products because we never want to put somebody in a lesbian box. So we'll make products that can be used by both women and two women together, but we don't say specifically, “This is a lesbian product and that's who should use it.”
So, a lot of our stuff has also followed the trend. So, our products and our packaging will be like Anal Fantasy Elite is for anyone who has a butt hole, which is 100% of the population. We don't target that towards men, women or anything in between. We just say that, "Hey, anyone who wants anal pleasure, this is for you."
I'd say about five years ago, you'll notice less and less that there are actually people on packaging. Now, it'll be maybe a silhouette or a body part or the product itself, but a lot more people are not pinpointing something and putting it in a cubby hole and keeping it there.
Liz Goldwyn: And then, you have products like the female sex dolls, Kitty and Carmen. They only respond to a deeper tone, to male voices.
Sunny Rodgers: Carmen and Kitty, those are our ultimate fantasy dolls. We have another line, it's PDX. And it came out with interactive talking products and they do respond and it's a lower octave. It's somebody who has a lower voice and that is who they respond to better. I was trying to get one to say something. I basically I said, "Who's your daddy?" It wouldn't respond to me. I had a male say it and immediately she's like, "I'm your daddy."
I'm like, "That's not right." (Laughs) But I think that is-- it's our first try at this. They were just premiered in January. They haven't even hit the market yet. I think there's a little fine-tuning there, so that women can use those. I also think that because the technology that we have those in right now are our masturbators. I think that's why they're specifically rigged to respond to males at this point.
Liz Goldwyn: What's the price point for those sex dolls?
Sunny Rodgers: We are a manufacturer. We don't sell direct to consumers. So it's up to our wholesalers or retailers to put the price on there. I suspect they'll be somewhere between $2,500 to $3,000, and the reason we did this is right now we can make about six a day of these dolls. They're very intricate. They're 5'5” and they weigh between 80 and 90 pounds. So they really are real and they have steel-posable skeletons and everything. They're very intricate and most people that want customizable ones will go with a manufacturer like RealDoll and theirs are anywhere between $5,000 to $6,000. I know their process is like a month long.
Liz Goldwyn: That's a big investment.
Sunny Rodgers: It is, but these are companions. That's what I found out. I write most of the packaging for the products that we have and a lot of the advertising. And I do a lot of blogging and articles and stuff. I like to do a lot of back research. I think that's why I started getting certifications, so I could really be knowledgeable in these areas. And with the dolls, there are forums where those dolls are living in their eyes and they're their companions. They're their wife. They're their partner. They're their life partner.
I've met people that when they pass away, they've put in their will that this doll has to go to somebody who's going to care and love it as much as they do.
Liz Goldwyn: It make sense that it would be so expensive considering the technology involved as well.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: It's kind of like leasing a car.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. (Both laugh) Exactly.
Liz Goldwyn: Which people also have close personal relationships with.
Sunny Rodgers: Right.
Liz Goldwyn: What's the revenue stream for the sex toy industry as opposed to another industry who we're more familiar with?
Sunny Rodgers: Last year it was a $15 billion industry. And it continues to grow. I've heard by 2020, it'll be more like 50 billion. You don't see it in malls. There was a time where I could go to the mall and not see Victoria's Secret because someone would think, "Well, why would there be a whole store dedicated to underwear?" The mainstream feelings I should say haven't caught up to where this is an acceptable industry. So it's in the dark a lot and people don't talk about it and people don't talk about sex.
I think Amazon is a blessing and a curse. I think it's a blessing because people trust Amazon and they can get a Vibrator Prime shipped to them in two days. And it'll be discreet, because it's in that nice Amazon box. But I think it's also a curse because it's allowing people that are making counterfeit sex toys and pleasure products to also sell them on there. So, even though I think that's one reason that we're going to get to be 50 billion. I wish there was somebody that could also monitor that and make sure that nobody gets hurt or has a bad experience.
Liz Goldwyn: What should we be looking out for in terms of buying a sex toy? What are the biggest mistakes in terms of safety in particular?
Sunny Rodgers: First, I want to say if you can, purchase from a store or a store's website and there's several of them that are out there and there's several chains. There's Good Vibrations and Babeland and Lion's Den and even the Museum of Sex in New York sells toys. And those are all very good places and a lot of those have sales online and those are trustworthy, and you know you're not going to get knock-offs and counterfeits or anything scary, but the number one thing I always tell people is when you take it out of the box, the first time, clean it, because a lot of manufacturing companies over in different countries, they use gasoline to clean their injection molds.
And a lot of products that are seamless and round and curved that we like because it fits our bodies well, those are items that have injection molds. I just know that those can relate to burns and people can have a really bad experience with something like that. And that's why cleanliness is so, so very, very important.
Liz Goldwyn: What are the best materials to look for when you're purchasing a sex toy like a vibrator or dildo?
Sunny Rodgers: I love silicone because it's hypoallergenic. You can clean it in so many ways. If it's non-vibrating, you could put it on the top shelf of your dishwasher, you can boil it, you can clean it with a mild bleach solution. And it's just a clean, clean product. It's also what they make prosthetics out of so you know that most skin is going to be adaptable to that and it warms to body temperature. So it's like you're having a natural experience when you're playing with it.
I also like glass, but I don't like it for beginners because it's so non-flexible and rigid, however, same thing. You can put it in your dishwasher. You can boil it. It's so incredibly smooth that it doesn't have any drag at all, so when you use it on your body, it is just silky smooth. That's why you'll see a lot of glass anal products, because you don't want any type of drag back there.
Liz Goldwyn: What about crystal?
Sunny Rodgers: (Gasps) I love crystals! The Chakrubs and you know what? There's even Etsy stores where people are finding out how beneficial crystals are and they want to use them as yoni eggs and toys. And I love any type of product like that. I would say you have to be a little more tender with that and really keep it clean like a crystal. You want it to have good sun energy and moon energy. And you want to be able to clean it in like salt water and stuff like that and protect it.
Liz Goldwyn: Absolutely.
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah.
Liz Goldwyn: If you've never been into a sex toy shop before, can we sort of walk through some of the top toys and how to use them?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. A lot of stores online are able to track their purchases. And so we, for the first time, are being able to have actual demographics, which is fantastic. That's why we know there's more women purchasing instead of men. The number one is a vibrator. It's the classic seven-inch vibe. It's plastic. It usually goes anywhere from $10 to $20 retail. And it's the intro vibe because it's good for external/internal vibration. Most of the time with the seven-inch classic, you unscrew it, you put the batteries in, the motor is at the tip so you can do pinpoint pleasure wherever you want to on any erogenous zone. It's a great gateway into the pleasures of sex toys.
The number two selling product is a dildo. And I think that's because a lot of times people are curious. They could be virgins. They could have only had sex with one person. They want to experience a different size, a different shape, maybe circumcised or uncircumcised. And so they want a realistic product.
I also think a lot of this has to do with this day and age, people are almost expected to be a little more exploratory in the bedroom. And some people don't want to necessarily invite someone else in the bedroom, however, having an inanimate object that is also phallic-shaped is a way to invite a second person into the bedroom without actually having any emotions or anything tied to it. So I think that's a level of safety.
Our company, Pipedream Products, makes 75,000 dildos every week, which is insane, but they're all American-made rubber and it's all made in Chatsworth, California here in Southern California. It's a true business. And we make sure that everything is safe. We've got a huge quality control department to handle that.
Another material you can do silicone, which is really expensive. Tantus has a few of those. I would also say, there's a lot of companies, ours is called Fanta Flesh. You've probably heard of Cyber Skin, that's Topco's Doc Johnson, it's called UR3, it's a double process, it's a thermal elastomer, and it's a softer flexible rubber. It warms up. It's got a stronger rubber center, and then the outside actually feels like skin.
So it's a way to kind of have a silicone experience without having to pay the price, because it'll be half the price of what silicone is. And it does warm to your body temperature, but not to the degree that silicone does.
Liz Goldwyn: So vibrator, dildo. Where do cock rings fall into the purchase?
Sunny Rodgers: (Gasps) You know what? They are not even registering right now. I would say the number three product is the rabbit, because of Sex in the City and it's become so synonymous with female vibrators, so everyone looks for rabbits. And they don't even know why. Vibrating cock rings, I say it over and over again, it's my favorite, favorite sex toy. It's because it not only helps the guy maintain an erection, either longer or stronger, but the vibrating ones has a nice little vibrator on there, so when the woman or the partner hits, then they feel that vibration.
And it also gives the partner something to grind on so they can enjoy that vibration. They're tiny and they look like little tiny rubber objects, and there are even disposable ones. They're inexpensive. I would say most of those go from around $7.99 to $12.99. Screaming O makes a lot of those. Pipedream Products has some of them. And you just try it for a night. It's tiny. You can put it on your fingers and use it as, like, a massage and just place the vibration wherever you want on the other person's body. It's a great way just to experience a little bit of pleasure without having to necessarily go for something big and scary.
Liz Goldwyn: Can you describe how to put it on for us?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes! While cock rings or penis rings/erection ring/C-rings are designed to actually keep the blood in the penis, it also keeps blood out. So if you put it on too soon, he'll never really get hard. So it's like a really mean little trick. What I always say is let your partner get hard and actually have an erection or at least a semi-strong erection going before you place the cock ring on.
You can always put a little bit of lubricant around the inside, stretch it open, and slide it all the way down to the base, and then the vibrator, depending upon if the vibration's too strong or if it feels like it's getting in the way, if it's a female and it's hitting your clitoris and you don't want that, then just put it underneath and you can still feel the vibration. It actually travels through the penis and makes his penis into a vibrator.
And you can also put cock rings on classic vibes too and make your own recessionista rabbit, we'll say. (Both laugh)
Liz Goldwyn: What do you suggest for someone that's interested in kink and fetish as a BDSM starter kit item?
Sunny Rodgers: I love this. Pipedream has a whole line called Fetish Fantasy and they've got some good beginner stuff, but the number one thing I'm going to say if you're going to go into this foray is a blindfold, because when you take away one sense, it makes all your other senses so heightened. So when you don't have sight and you're not worried about looking or how you look or this or that, all of a sudden flavors are more intense, feelings are more stimulating. Everything's heightened. It's just amazing.
Also, if you put a blindfold on a person and just have them lay on a bed, you'll notice they almost start getting goosebumps and quivering, because they're just so full of a wonderful expectation. They have no idea what's going to happen, but they're so anticipating it.
Liz Goldwyn: And you don't even need to really purchase that, you can use a scarf from home or a pair of tights.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. Absolutely. Anything. Yeah.
Liz Goldwyn: What about if couples aren't interested in playing with sex toys, is there still hope for keeping your sex life evolving without the use of accessories?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. I also am a sex coach and that doesn't mean going in the bedroom and watching people and saying, "A little to the right, a little to left." It's almost like a therapist. Therapists will work on and on with people, and usually, I speak with people and it'll be for one session to three sessions and it's just really about a specific problem.
And there's always something underlying. I usually refer out to a therapist, because you'll find that it's not really sex and the fact they haven't had sex for six years, why? Well, it's something else, but if you want to intensify things, I ask people to get little Post-It notes, maybe five each, and write down something you want to try. It's not sex. It should be sexy.
Let's say I want to try sex with fruit. And it doesn't necessarily mean insertion. It could be placing berries all over my body and having someone lick that off. I just want to know what that's going to feel like or it could be something like you don't hold my hands enough. I want you to hold my hand and nibble my ear. Just certain things that you can put on there.
It could be really kinky too. It could be something like, "I want you to put on all my clothes," or "Ooh! I want you to wear shoes in bed next time we make love." What I ask people to do is fold it up, put it in a fishbowl or a hat, a bowl, it doesn't matter, and then date night Wednesdays, whatever your favorite night is to get together or whenever you're available to, each one of you take something out of it and actually try that.
It also allows for a conversation, because all of a sudden you're talking to your partner like, "Wait a second. I didn't know you liked shoes. You want me to wear my shoes in bed?" And that just opens up a whole nother level discovery. As long as you can keep growing with your partner, then I think that's what's really important.
Liz Goldwyn: And what about if you don't have a partner? (Sunny gasps) (Both laugh) What then?
Sunny Rodgers: There's still hope. Do you mean trying things in your own life?
Liz Goldwyn: Trying things in your own life or what if you don't have a singular partner?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: Let me be more specific.
Sunny Rodgers: Absolutely. I recently was a sex coach for a week, seven days straight for a writer on vice. So each day I gave her a different assignment. One day I had her wear remote control panties and she had the remote. And she had to turn it on at least three times that day in a public place. And she said just that, she was so hot and bothered by the end of the day.
And I also told her, and this was not having to do with sex toys, I said, "You have to sit down next to somebody, start a conversation, and I want you to change your name." I said, "Speaking with you, you have to be a good girl and you have to be all sweet. I want you to change it up. I want you to be a bitch. You're never going to see this person again, just really let all your feelings out, change your name and talk to this person. You can even make stuff up."
And so she actually was going on a trip and she did it at a bar in the airport. She said it was actually quite freeing. Just not being herself, but being Rebecca. It just kind of changes things up. And it puts you in a different mind, because you don't choose your name. Your name is given to you, just like so many other things in your life, so why don't you have a nice secret name and your secret name can be Lola and Lola likes to have her feet rubbed before you kiss her. Things like that.
And I also think loving yourself. Do something nice for yourself every single day, I think that will change people's perception.
Liz Goldwyn: Makes you get more in touch with yourself and feel a little sexier.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. Absolutely.
Liz Goldwyn: Can we become desensitized to vibrators?
Sunny Rodgers: Some people can. And a lot of people are more sensitive than others to be honest. I mean, some people just have heightened response systems, but a lot of times they're using the wrong vibrator. I think the reason Magic Wand, and those type of wand vibrators are so popular, is because they have a deeper oscillation and a deeper thumping.
A classic wand or a smaller pocket massager is going to have a smaller motor and a higher oscillating motor, so it's going to be like ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and it's more buzzy. A lot of women find that the buzzy vibration is too much. They really need a lower vibration. And I think that's why wands are so important, but if you do have that happen where it's too sensitive, then just back off. I also like to say, I call it, “Let's just take a walk around the waterfall,” because a lot of times women find their actual clitoris under the little bonnet, so sensitive that you really should just try putting the massager all the way around it and not actually touching it.
Your labia and everything in there is better and a lot of times with a deeper vibration like that, it will penetrate your skin and actually reach your clitoris. And your clitoris actually goes back inside your body. It's like a tip of an iceberg. It will go back sometimes up to six inches on either side.
Liz Goldwyn: Can you walk us through Ben Wa balls and yoni eggs?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes! (Liz laughs) Two of my favorite things. Oh my gosh. First of all I want to say a word of caution for any women who have a tilted uterus and like 45% of the population does.
Liz Goldwyn: How do we know if we have a tilted uterus?
Sunny Rodgers: Usually your gynecologist will tell you. If they haven't told you, I recommend yoni eggs, because those are larger. People with tilted uteruses will have a little pocket underneath their cervix and a Ben Wa ball can get stuck in there. If you do want to use Ben Wa balls, then use the ones with tails on them and I always recommend ones that have silicone around them and a silicone tail, because it's easier to clean.
Don't use string, it's horrible. It's like a little bacteria party going on, so you don't want to do that. But with yoni eggs, I love the crystal ones. Like a rose quartz crystal yoni egg can really impart a lot of self-love in the core of your root chakra and it can really empower women to feel wonderful about themselves.
Liz Goldwyn: You can actually buy a starter kit of yoni eggs in three different sizes. On Amazon, you can buy them in jade and maybe you can explain more about this, but it's recommended to actually start with the bigger one as opposed to the smallest one.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. The bigger one's going to be easier to hold and hold inside. You need to strengthen your vaginal muscles or your PC muscles. They're also the muscles located around your G-spot and your pelvic floor. So if you sneeze and you feel yourself pee a little bit, and that is common, especially after women have had babies, that means you need to strengthen those PC muscles.
So holding the yoni egg in tightens the muscles. I recommend doing that around 20 minutes a day up to 3 to 5 times a week to start. You can go slow. You can start for five minutes or something like that. You don't necessarily have to squeeze and release. There are wonderful crystal wands and stuff. They're fantastic for holding in your vaginal canal and squeezing and releasing, but I think yoni eggs are better just to hold it in.
I like to say do it when you brush your teeth. So if you do it in the morning and at night, you know you're going to brush your teeth every day at those times. Slip in a yoni egg and just kind of cuddle it in there and as your PC muscles get stronger, you're able to get tinier and tinier and pretty soon the smallest one can be in there and your muscles will naturally hold it and you won't have to worry about it falling out, because that will happen.
Liz Goldwyn: And you can go and do activities. You can do yoga.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. Yoga is amazing.
Liz Goldwyn: [crosstalk]. You're also certified in reiki, which is a form of energy healing.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: How do you see your energy work being beneficial to the field of sexuality? In my personal life I feel that mindful sex is obviously really important to me, but that practice of evolved sexuality and sacred sex is much more interesting, especially as a reaction to how disposable sex is these days, how transactional it is.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. I'll tell you something that so many people, they think I'm weird, because I've been married for so long and we are in a monogamous relationship. They're like, "Don't you get bored?" When you've had tantric sex and you have an orgasm that lasts three hours. (Both laugh) I mean, why? Why would you have silly, useless sex?
Liz Goldwyn: You're married?
Sunny Rodgers: I'm married.
Liz Goldwyn: And you use your husband as a co-product tester?
Sunny Rodgers: I do.
Liz Goldwyn: Does that help keep things spicy?
Sunny Rodgers: Extremely hot and spicy. Yeah. He loves it.
Liz Goldwyn: Is there anything that he feels uncomfortable about trying?
Sunny Rodgers: Large items in his anus. Yeah.
Liz Goldwyn: That's a no-go zone?
Sunny Rodgers: That's a no-go zone. He really doesn't like it. He's a good sport and he'll do it if I give him a lot of tequila. (Laughs) But I don't have a penis and I don't have a prostate, so somebody has to do this. I need one-on-one. I need to know exactly how it feels. I need to know somebody that is going to be right there allowing me to use these items on them.
It's funny because in January, we premiered about 10 to 12 new masturbators that are electronic. They milk, which is also called jelqing where you grab the penis and you milk the blood up to the tip. It's a practice that men started over in Europe to try and lengthen their penis and studies have not been found that it works or doesn't work, however, the milking sensation is very pleasurable.
So we came out with one of those. We have a suction. We've got rotation. We've got things that go up and down and it gives me incredible penis envy. I'll bring those home. And I'll have to try like five of them in one night. I'm like, "All right. Here we go." And it's cute, because I know men don't really talk about their sex lives a lot or at least I should say-
Liz Goldwyn: (Liz laughs) Really?
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah. Well, at least in my husband's circle, they don't. They'll be out golfing and they try not to bring this up unless one of them has a problem. They'll be like, "Can I ask Sunny?" But it's really cute because they just think he has the luckiest marriage in the world.
So all my husband's friends think he's the luckiest man in the world. And he always says, "Oh no, no, everything's fine. It's okay. It's just okay." But when he comes back to me, he's like, "I really am the luckiest man in the world." It's a lot of fun.
Liz Goldwyn: Are there any drawbacks to having to be so immersed in sex 24/7?
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. No one wants to talk to me about anything else.
Liz Goldwyn: Do you ever feel oversaturated?
Sunny Rodgers: I don't. If anything and this is so-- it might sound weird. I feel like I'm still at the tip of the iceberg and there's so much to learn. This morning I was reading something about the benefits of avocado cream for your vaginal canal and how it will help with atrophy. I'm thinking, "I've never heard of that. Now, I have to go find it and try it."
And I've constantly have people emailing me and texting me with stuff like marijuana products, some tampons and suppositories and drops that go on your clitoris or a female Viagra or have you heard about this?
Liz Goldwyn: Let's talk about some of those things actually. Starting with female Viagra.
Sunny Rodgers: It's kind of funny because Dr. Walter from UCLA, the couples in sex therapy lecture series, he told me it worked right for me, but I thought it worked wrong, because it gave me a horrible migraine. I did not want to have sex.
Liz Goldwyn: But isn't a bit of a myth, the female Viagra?
Sunny Rodgers: I think it has to be, honestly. That's another good thing about working in this industry is I feel like I'm always turned on. I am ready like 24/7, which is fantastic. So there's no such thing as “never in the mood,” because there's always something in my head that just turns me on, which is amazing. Marijuana products, fan-tastic.
Liz Goldwyn: Let's talk about what they are for listeners who don't know about cannabis lubricants.
Sunny Rodgers: Oh yes. Oh my god. Cannabis lubricants, these little THC drops extracted from marijuana and it's almost like an essential oil. And you drop it on your clitoris. Now, the great thing about women is we can have so many different types of orgasms. I talk to a lot of men about this and men will tell me that they usually have the same orgasm over and over and they don't understand that there is a difference.
Now, women can have rolling orgasms. They can have short strong orgasms. They can have long powerful orgasms, and so women are lucky because they can have all sorts of different types of orgasms. With Foria what I found-
Liz Goldwyn: Foria is a brand.
Sunny Rodgers: It's a brand of a THC essential oil that has the potency of the plant in it. And you place one-to-three drops on your clitoris. It does give you a really long three-minute rolling orgasm, which is amazing. I think that it's fantastic.
Liz Goldwyn: What about for oral sex? Does it get your partner high?
Sunny Rodgers: Oh, you know what? I guess I'm going to have to do that tonight, because I haven't studied that yet. Oh that's a good one! I don't know. Look, something new! That's the great thing. I'll also say in this industry, I learn something new every single day. There's a new term. There's a new trend. Somebody's using something a new way. It never gets old.
Liz Goldwyn: What are your favorite lubricants besides cannabis lubricants, which unfortunately are only legal and available in certain states in America at the moment?
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah. I love Sliquid. They're all natural.
Liz Goldwyn: Is that silicone or water?
Sunny Rodgers: I like water-based for women. I like silicone only if it's for anal sex play, because it lasts longer and you don't have to reapply. Water-based for your vaginal canal is better. I would say my favorite personal lube that I use quite often is System JO. They have one called Agape lubricant. It's primarily made for women. It's pH balanced and it actually nourishes your vaginal canal. And I like that one the best.
I would say that's probably the one that I recommend the most, because I don't know if people know that every single time you have sex, sex play does create tears, either if it's in your vaginal canal or your rectum area, so you should always use high quality items. You shouldn't use anything that you are nervous about or has bad reviews or this and that. It's really important if you use anything internal, because that's why women are so susceptible to yeast infections and UTIs and things, because when you have sex, it can take three-to-five days for those little tiny microscopic cuts to heal. It's really important to keep the pH balance normalized.
And then, something that we kind of talked about this, but cornstarch. It's a natural lubricant. It's messy but it's a lot of fun. And you can use it as a lubricant. And it's hypoallergenic and people find it fascinating. It gives a whole different silky sensation instead of a gooey sensation. That's kind of fun to try as well.
Liz Goldwyn: You are certified in reiki, which is a form of energy healing. How do you see energy work being beneficial to the field of sexuality and to your work in particular?
Sunny Rodgers: I'm blessed because people share things with me. And I started studying this, because I found that people can have their root chakra displaced and-
Liz Goldwyn: Should we explain what a root chakra is?
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah. So you have several different energy spots that are in your body and they're not only part of your body, but you also have different layers that go out. There's about six of them. It can reach quite far, your energy field around you, and I was finding that there were people that were having problems with their sexuality and that there was no physical explanation.
And when I looked harder or I spoke with doctors and I asked what they've tried, the common thread was always they worked with energy work and they found that there were holes or there were problems in their energy fields or that one of their chakras, most likely the root chakra, is displaced or not in alignment, not open. And it can result in sex addiction.
It can result in not being able to have a happy monogamous relationship. It can result in not feeling your own self-love. And the more I researched this, the more people I spoke with, I knew I had to learn more. That's the one common thread here is the more I learn the more I want to learn. My number one goal is I want people to feel pleasure. I want them to be happy with their selves. And I don't think that their sexual organs are just for procreation. I think orgasms are the universe's candy and that you should be able to have your candy every day.
And it shouldn't be judged or discriminated against and your body is yours to enjoy. The energy work has opened up a whole other realm that I had never even considered. I just was level two certified in January and I'm going for my masters. I'll have my masters in reiki by the end of the year. This is something that once that you are turned on to it, you cannot turn it off. It's not your choice.
And I'm so happy about that, because I never want to turn this feeling off. I always want to be able to help people with their chakras and show them that it's not in your head. There is something wrong, but we can help you fix it. And there's people that are there that are skilled enough to help you.
Liz Goldwyn: How can we practice more mindful sex?
Sunny Rodgers: Most the people I speak with have sex because they feel like they have to or like my husband and I have to have sex once a month. My partner and I have to have sex. It's Friday night. It's date night. It's his birthday. It's our anniversary. And they feel like it's a chore. And they're not realizing it's actually sex play. It's play for a reason.
It's just one of the reasons that you can enjoy your body and the feelings that are there. I think that if people are just in the moment, you enjoy spending time with yourself. You enjoy touching yourself. You enjoy how it makes you feel. And I think one of the biggest things that people can do, both by themselves or with their partners, and it doesn't even have to be a long-term partner is masturbate in front of each other, masturbate each other and show people what they like, what you don't like.
Don't put a time on it. Don't do it when you know somebody's coming to the door or you have dinner reservations. I say fuck first. If you fuck first, and then go to dinner, you have a nice healthy glow. You can now flirt with each other. You feel sexy. You're relaxed. You don't have to hurry through dinner. Do it first. It should be your entrée.
That is really what it should all be about. And if you miss everything else, so what? You're connected with the person you love and you're enjoying pleasurable feelings. And I think that's what life is all about really.
Liz Goldwyn: A large percentage of our listeners may not believe in monogamy or may be into polyamory or like a variety of partners, so how can we practice more mindful sex, keeping in mind that we now live in a culture where we have so many choices?
Sunny Rodgers: A lot of that has to do with realizing that sex and love are two different things, that both are important, but they're not entwined like the society thinks they are. That to love yourself is to forgive yourself and understand yourself and give yourself permission. With a lot of people I speak with, they just want permission to be themselves however they are.
I think with sex, it shouldn't have to be a chore. It's something enjoyable. And you should really just treasure it. I know myself, I take time to meditate every day. Why? Because I feel like it's important. If somebody feels like sex is an important thing to them and they want to elevate that in their lives, then they have to make it important to themselves.
They have to find a good space for them to enjoy sex play even if it's with themselves. They have to make time for it and treat it like something that they cherish. I think if they do that, their whole entire body and being and meaning will follow.
Liz Goldwyn: What do you see as the new frontier of sexuality?
Sunny Rodgers: The more I'm finding out about energies and crystals and vibrational things, I really think that that is the next step. I know that, being married for so long --it'll be 19 years in September-- we got married nine months after meeting each other and we've been monogamous-
Liz Goldwyn: Sort of monogamous.
Sunny Rodgers: Well, sort of. I love girls. (Both laugh) He allows me my little playmates whenever I feel. So I should say he's been monogamous to me. I just think that love in itself is beauty. I have a lot of love to give and I enjoy sex. So a lot of people don't understand how someone can be married for that long and still find it exciting and this and that. And they think it's the toy testing, but when you have a tantric sexual experience and you have a tantric orgasm where you orgasm for three hours and it's not so silly anymore.
And I really think that that is the next step. I do. I know a lot of people think it's teledonics and it's-
Liz Goldwyn: What is teledonics?
Sunny Rodgers: Teledonics is taking the pleasure dolls, like the ultimate fantasy dolls, Kitty and Carmen, and putting artificial intelligence in them and giving them, like, an Alexa, but in a sex form. I want to say maybe that's exciting for --sorry-- for men, because it's maybe their ultimate fantasy and playmate, but I don't think that's what women want.
Liz Goldwyn: I think all human beings want more intimacy. When we talk about the new frontier of sexuality, I think it's intimacy. I think it's spirituality in the way in which you're discussing it, whether that's tantra, sacred sex, being connected in all of your chakras to another human being or human beings. I think although it's amazing the advances in artificial intelligence, doesn't that make us even more connected, but still alone?
Sunny Rodgers: Exactly. Unfortunately. You see things now and people are calling them “retro”. There's more people that are living with their parents. You'll see multiple generations all living in one house. Well, that's how it, quote unquote, "used to be." And I think that the technology industry came and it changed for a lot of people and everybody got very independent and very in their own space and I think that's all going to come back to people cherishing what's really important, connection-
Liz Goldwyn: Community.
Sunny Rodgers: … and family, community. Exactly. I see that definitely taking place. I think that has a lot to do with spirituality though in itself.
Liz Goldwyn: Absolutely. What areas do you think we need more research in? Besides female sexuality?
Sunny Rodgers: Right!
Liz Goldwyn: In which there isn't actually when you really look at the numbers.
Sunny Rodgers: See, this is something I'm constantly researching. And I love that Masters and Johnson put themselves out there and did all this research, but it's just the tip of the iceberg like a clitoris. Between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s, Grey's Anatomy, which is the medical book, completely removed clitoris, because they had no idea what it did. They thought it was like an appendix, so therefore, it really had no function.
So let's just take it out of medical books. And it wasn't put back in until around 1985. There's years of medical students who had no idea that it was even part of the female body, things like that. I definitely think more sexual research as healing benefits is very important and people are going to find that you can't just put a cream on it. You can't just take a pill. You are a whole person and you have a lot of intricacies and energies and those really have to be healed in order to feel life completely.
Liz Goldwyn: What are you still learning about sex?
Sunny Rodgers: That people are afraid. Everything's a porn addiction, a sex addiction or you can get addicted to sex toys or that if you enjoy sex toys, then you'll never have a normal sex life. There are so many stigmas and parameters that our society is basing on a simple pleasure. And that is frustrating, but I think that's why all of us shouldn't give up the good fight and continue to help make sexual health and wellness important and something that is available to everyone.
Liz Goldwyn: Thank you.
Sunny Rodgers: Thank you.
Liz Goldwyn: That was amazing. Thank you. So we touched a little bit on tantra, and I think in the West, people hear the word tantra, they've maybe seen American Pie where one of the characters experiments with tantra. They've maybe heard that Sting, the musician, does tantra or they've heard that it can give you a multi-hour orgasm. And they think that tantra is, like, a quick study, but I'd love for you to demystify that for us if you could.
Sunny Rodgers: I will try. It's not quick. It's something that takes years of practice. You have to be in touch with your body, your partner has to be in touch with his body or her body and your body as well. It really is like a melding of souls. Is the only way I could think to explain it.
It's something where you really have to experience it. It's not yoga. It's not crystals. It's not Kama Sutra. It's an entire practice that you do with someone and there are poses that you do that align you better, but I would say make the effort because it gives you such a feeling of completeness and wholeness and closeness, not only to yourself, but to the entire universe and to your partner. It's a good travel to take. Pack your bags, get in the tantra truck, and definitely put it on your list of places to visit.
Liz Goldwyn: And before you can even practice tantra with a partner, you need to spend a great deal of time on your own sexuality, getting in touch with your body, practicing your Kegels no matter your gender or how you identify, bringing in a mindful practice to sex. You can't just go out and practice tantra with anyone, because whoever you choose to practice tantra with has to be as focused, as deep into their body, their mind, the melding of their consciousness and their sexuality as you are.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes. I think there's always something to learn, even there, you can learn new tantric poses and practices. And I think that's the wonderful thing about it is our consciousness is constantly evolving. And I can't wait to see what's next.
Liz Goldwyn: Because we can't offer any quick tips for tantric sex, can you give us some quick tips for orgasm?
Sunny Rodgers: I hope so. I think I can. So the easiest way is for a woman to lie on her back, and I like the toys like the Njoy or the glass products from Icicles. You insert and just insert the tip in, and you'll find your G-spot about two to three inches up facing forward, right below your belly button and you just rub there while you're rubbing or putting a vibrator on or around your clitoris, and then you rock. The rocking stimulate sex. If you can have your hips elevated by like a little pillow underneath, that helps as well.
So if you just have stimulation on your clitoris and you're stimulating a nice little rubbing on your G-spot and just be very patient, relax your mind, relax your breath, rock and you'll gently, gently have an orgasm.
Liz Goldwyn: Can you do that without sex toys?
Sunny Rodgers: You can definitely use your finger. Like 78% of women can only have an external, vaginal orgasm and that's why so many women like to use sex toys like in between their partners during sex play. So you can use your fingers externally, but when you put your finger inside and you just play with your G-spot, something about the connection, it just is almost like electric. It sets something in motion where your body actually can relax and you'll start your very first orgasm.
Liz Goldwyn: Woo-hoo!
Sunny Rodgers: Yeah.
Liz Goldwyn: (Both laugh) There we go.
Sunny Rodgers: Yes.
Liz Goldwyn: Thank you.
Sunny Rodgers: (Both laugh) Thank you.
Liz Goldwyn: You can find Sunny on Twitter @SunnyRodgers, that's R-O-D-G-E-R-S and at thesexed.com, that's our website where she's a regular contributor.
Thanks for listening to The Sex Ed. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and be sure to visit us at thesexed.com. I'm your host Liz Goldwyn. This episode was produced by Aesli Grandi for the Media Mob in association with Fanny Co.. Our editor is Rob Aber. Jackie Wilson is our line producer. Jeremy Emery is our sound recordist and Bettina Santo Domingo is our coordinator. Lewis Lazar made all of our music including the track you're listening to right now. As always The Sex Ed remains dedicated to expanding your orgasmic health and sexual consciousness. Thanks again for listening.