Midori: Japanese Bondage History
Podcast Transcript Season 2 Episode 20
Interviewer: Liz Goldwyn
Illustration BY Black Women Animate
This week, our guest is Midori, legendary sex educator, author and artist. Midori wrote the classic rope bible, The Seductive Art of Japanese Bondage— the first English-language book on shibari. Liz and Midori cover bondage’s roots in warfare, incarceration and slavery as well as why, when tying up a lover for the first time, it’s important to maintain eye contact.
The following is a transcript of the interview from the episode:
Liz:
So thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Midori:
Happy to be here.
Liz:
I wanted to start with the historical origins of the art of shabari. Or Japanese bondage. Because when I was researching in preparation to talk to you, I was really fascinated to find that it comes from a martial art of restraining captives. Originally in Japan. Is that correct?
Midori:
Yes and no.
Liz:
Can you break it down for us?
Midori:
Alright, now every culture has its darker part of its history of human conflict. Human conflict and that also echos into our darker erotic desires. Right? Things in the past are romanticized as we say the golden past is golden, because it is past. The reason I'm mentioning this is, as every culture or sex is cultural. Right? We tend to think of sexuality as being somehow a natural human thing that lives in a vacuum of biology or something.
But it's not. The way in which we cork our sexual fantasies, the way in which we absorb all of which is culturally influenced and culturally transmitted. So as such, our lighter or joyous erotic fantasies may be that of walking on the beach and holding hands, kissing, of sweet gentle touches and foreplay.
But even in the realm of romance novels we get the darker fantasies, right? And all of this are based on the cultural context. Am I making sense so far?
Liz:
Yes.
Midori:
Okay. So when we think of romance novels.. we think of western romance novels, you'll get the Castle on the Heath, the Mr Darcy character. These classic stories. You also get in the fantasies of power and force and we also get those from our culturally shared past. So when you think of conventional BDSM like handcuffs, right? What's the origin of handcuffs? Origin of handcuffs is law enforcement and incarceration by police as well as incarceration as slaves that were kidnapped. So you have metal feathers, whether its law enforcement or whether its kidnapping people from other countries and enslaving them. Those tools end up becoming tools of fantasies for our kinky little sex games.
Now would it be correct if I were playing with fuzzy handcuffs? Could I say that western BDSM has roots in law enforcement? You'd probably laugh.
Liz:
But it makes sense when you explain it in that context.
Midori:
So let me reflect it to the Japanese side of things. Alright, so. In Japan was there a period of medieval warring nations, much in the way that Europe had a medieval warring period? Absolutely. During which time humans used lots of very creative and ugly strategies by which to capture one another, hurt one another, kill one another, restrain one another and incarcerate one another.
In terms of, this is warfare. This is not in the element of erotic. So you get a period where, whether its military or law enforcement or the darker periods of med-evil violence, these things are happening. Now the myth that is propagated in the west today is that that is the direct ancestry of people tying each other up in sex clubs in Japan.
When you think about it that way, that's a mighty big leap isn't it? That's a huge leap. So let’s take it step by step. Alright so you got med-evil period with countries within Japan. Japan was multiple countries, much in the way that Italy is now one country but back in the day Italy used to be a bunch of principalities.
Alright so back in the day there were a whole lot of different principalities killing each other. Alright. In the process of which, there were people that were being captured or tortured or killed. Alright. Villagers and farmers and common people and merchants might see the resulting atrocities. Also out of this, tales of heroes and villains are born. Tales of heroes and villains like Camelot. You get fantastic over the top heroes and virtuous men and women and evil, evil villains. These people in their stories and their narratives end up being retold as plays as well as stories in ways to entertain people.
Now of course what's a good story without people experiencing dire circumstances and capturing? And occasionally a lot of sex.
Middle class people wanted to be entertained. They wanted to go to theaters. They wanted to see dirty pictures. Just like us. And fantastic stories of people captured and a little kimono slipped off the shoulder, a little ankle showing. Made for really good theater. And really good erotic entertainment.
Liz:
And this is when this idea of romanticizing the restraints come into play?
Midori:
Well.. it’s not the romanticizing of the restraints. The restraint was part of a whole bunch of things that were eroticised.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Midori:
And what the Western retelling tends to forget or ignore is, the way that people that are tied up in an erotic imagery is a whole host of erotic visual code for adult entertainment, that has root in the past 150 years maybe. Its common people porn. And much in the way that there's slash fiction of say Batman and Catwoman. Or Wonder Woman tied up. All of which mainstream imagery is also gonna be turned into wank material.
So there's a whole rich tradition of Japanese erotic imagery called Shunga.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). The floating world.
Midori:
Hmm?
Liz:
The floating world. Right?
Midori:
Well, no. The floating world is not Shunga. Shunga's the art genre. The floating world is a general term to refer to the entertainment industry. Its not always about sex. In fact often times its not about sex. The floating world was actually about ordinary people, or merchant class. Which merchant class was considered not upper class but they had money so they could get their entertainment. So the floating world is the entire cultural system that got you - its like west end of London.
Liz:
Right.
Midori:
It’s Broadway in New York City.
Liz:
Right.
Midori:
It’s everything from fine restaurants, to musicians, to concerts, to theater and all the way to high end, all the way down to low end brothels.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
Yeah. And Shunga is actually an art genre which essentially means "Dirty pictures."
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
So within the category of Shunga which is where you get images of handsome men with phalluses as large as their torso.
Liz:
Yeah.
Midori:
And beautiful women with vulvas as large as their belly. Physically impossible. Amazing imagery of completely fantastical. Sometimes entirely goofy. Sexual images rendered by artists. So that's the category called Shunga.
Within Shunga you have a sub category called Symega which means pressure pictures or, also it might mean torment pictures. Now this falls in the same category as true crime novels. There was active censorship by the government. But they could often get away with things by showing cautionary tales of "Oh, you know you must behave in this way or you may be captured by mountain bandits. Tied up and stripped of your clothes. Oh no."
So there's this whole genre in the United States of true crime and it also happened in Victorian England. But it was a way by which to titillate the public. Sort of looking at sex but they could justify it by saying "we were looking at social concerns." So you get this whole genre that echoes true crime. They also took images from these romanticized heroes and legends of the past. And of course you get the pretty lady tied up and the handsome guy tied up in the telling of war stories. That probably didn't happen.
Then you get into the 20th century. The people that were Shunga artists, doing beautiful dirty pictures and sometimes really famous woodblock print artists would make dirty pictures on the side. Much in the way that amazing photographers today take dirty pictures on the side to pay their rent. And in the meantime the whole floating world, the entertainment sector is also putting on little plays or visual entertainment that may use a thinly disguised slowly of some hero and villain as a way to show pretty ladies or handsome men tied up. So now we have this whole entertainment culture. Right?
A way by which to tickle our erotic fantasy. Yes. And in the 21st century you have photography. Photography makes it into.. among the artists. Because artists are fast to adopt new technology. And then you get people who are forming photography clubs, with models who are portraying still lives and being tied up in accordance with historical melodrama.
This is very much I can't do. What happened with the likes of Bettie Page, right? And the great photographers of Your. That took images that were actually meant for erotic consumption. So along the way, this is still in Japan and not making it out of Japan, really. Except for some of the G.I's that might have been picking up these things after world war two and makes it out of Japan.
Now at this time the Comstock Law and the laws against shipping pornographic material using the US postal system is still in place. So these images of exotic Asian women.. remember these are G.I's coming out of Japan, right? Returning from the specific war. Are smuggling in and passing around images that were taken by these photo clubs. In Japan. So now we get the cultural context entirely stripped off beautiful Asian ladies tied up in naughty pictures.
Then you get to the late 20th century. You get the internet and you have people who are looking for a new kick and new entertainment. Going online. Now in the meantime, in Japan. There are the continuation of the floating world which is the red light district. You can get all sorts of visual entertainment, right? And theater entertainment. Whether its printed matter, videos, live clubs, bars with little performances etc. these are generally catered to well-to-do Japanese businessmen. Right?
Until the economy tanks. Like in the 80's and 90's. In the meantime, overseas people are discovering the exotic porn because they've now gone through a tantra. They've been introduced to that. They want something a little edgier. They want something different. Because the search for sexual entertainment is always about seeking the novel. And then finding that kink, that thrill. So then you get to the internet era and you get all of this visual information.
Now you overlay this with exoticism of and exoticising the mysterious orient. Which Orientalism still happens and what you end up with is a whole host of myth about this is a direct linkage from medieval warfare skills. Okay, so.
Liz:
So you're saying that the art of Japanese bondage which you explore so beautifully and lay out in your book, is really beginning around the same time that we're seeing pictures in the West? Of the Irving Klaw, Bettie Page bondage? Are they happening? Are those-
Midori:
You got it. There's an absolute historic parallel going on and for the same motivation.
Liz:
Is there any difference in the aesthetics of what we'd see as western bondage versus Japanese bondage? In the way that arrangements are wrote? And rub knots and ropes?
Midori:
Aesthetics are different indeed. And that's also culturally specific as well. So don't so much look at.. okay. The tools. The tools that are used are different because of the cultural framework. In the West, you have metal based bondage because think in terms of medieval use of metal implements. Metal and wood. Right? Think medieval as the Spanish inquisition.
Liz:
Shackles and cuffs.
Midori:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you get that and now you also get the American with what I call the people. The Democratic American romance. So you get the cowboys, you get the police, you get the fire fighters, the entire band of the village people. Okay? And you get that whole fantasy, right?
So you get the lasso and the hogtie because rodeo.
Liz:
Ah...
Midori:
And you get the handcuffs because of cops. So the tools are the tools of incarceration specific to the culture. So when you think of a straight jacket, that's from western medical incarceration. Right?
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
Whereas in Japan think of rope as an extension of wrapping. Or rather a subcategory of wrapping. Everything in Japan is wrapped. Right?
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
Gifts are wrapped, uri gami is wrapping, the national traditional garment the Kimono, is actually a series of wrapping. It is a culture that is obsessed with wrapping. And so, why wouldn't you also wrap your sweetie before you have hot, dirty sex. So yeah it’s a culture that has extreme competence in wrapping everything. Including bonsai trees, yeah.
Liz:
So how does the arrangement of the knots come into play? That's different in Japan versus the West around this early period of bondage?
Midori:
There isn't a focus on an arrangement of knots. It’s more about the body shape. When you look at earlier rope bondage photography, the really really detailed work today. That's modern. That's a really modern thing. When you look at the Irving Klaw era or the 20th century Japanese rope bondage. Or even mid 20th century, oh heck 1970's and 80's. Cause I love being able to collect porn and call it business research. It’s so much fun.
Liz:
Me too!
Midori:
Yeah, it’s great. When you look at imagery. Up until rather recently, the ropes have kind of gotten rough and seemingly sloppy and it actually had an aesthetic delight because it gave it that feel, that the gal or the guy was captured and roughly tied together. Right? So it gave that roughness to it?
So the placement of the knots in all that, there were certain convenient knots that may be placed upon. Like right on the clitoritis or right on the perineum or something like that. That showcase the boobies in just the right way. So in terms of consumer images and the way that real people. As opposed to the mythologized one. The knots are sexual convenience. It’s more about the whole body shape or how the hair is undone. Or how the kimono is disheveled. So it’s the whole package, right?
The placement of the knots and today 21st century, modern westerners who are going online to look for things, and may find resources on this was how it was done in medieval period. That's not how it looks in Japan when practicing this. They're tying each other up, pretend sexual war games and in pretty shapes that expose bits then they play around shame and embarrassment in their sexual play and shag. Or the imagery created too arise that kind of cultural nostalgia with erotic flare.
So it’s not about the knots. It’s about the whole shape. As well as the emotional story that the face, the body language and how the clothing is arranged or disarranged.
Liz:
So if you made that.. you have taken that whole historical context and with your work made it your own then for the 21st century.
Midori:
Yes. Because this isn't a living sexual craft. It’s not an art form that is frozen in amber. Its a sexual pleasure craft.. what I call pleasure craft. I'm not calling it art ‘cause I think that makes it a little too precious for people. It’s a tool and a skill by which to experience joy and arousal. And I think that those dishonor to the actual everyday human history and strategies of sexuality when we make it into a "this is a direct descendant of military warfare skills." Because what you're doing there is de-sexing it. You're castrating it and you're also white washing the fact that is completely washing over and denying the fact that there were pleasure strategies for ordinary people.
Liz:
Fascinating. Its fascinating to think of the historical context of slavery and incarceration with fetish as well. And even in terms of the different materials used. What drew you to this practice? I know you came out of the early 90's sex positive movement in SF. Were you one of the only people you know who were working in this area when you started?
Midori:
We're gonna back it up a little bit.
Liz:
Okay. Let’s back it up.
Midori:
Yeah. I grew up in Tokyo. I grew up in an old working class neighborhood in Tokyo. Right? And this is when Tokyo was.. it was a big city but it wasn't all that fancy as it is now. So I grew up in a neighborhood much like Brooklyn used to be. Before Brooklyn became what it is now. Alright. So growing up in Japan I would see the prime time TV shows with the sword fighting stuff, right?
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
It’s like watching a western, Japanese version. And there would always be somebody tied up and captured. Now not necessarily in an overtly sexual way. So our westerns I remember seeing those. I also remember seeing guys on the train reading dirty magazines, and I would peek over their shoulder and look at the picture imagery. So I was a little kid looking over at dirty pictures. Right?
I remember walking by an adult theater and looking at the posters like pretending like I'm not looking because nice school girl. Right? I was totally looking. Alright, so the imagery and the romance and also my mother would take me to kabuki theater and then I got the whole cultural sha-bang. Okay?
So that's in my head, right? In the pre-pubescent. Eventually I end up in the US and going to school and it’s my college boyfriend and I was like oh hey. We didn't know what the hell we were doing but somehow we got into exploring naughty things. We didn't know what the words were. And so with clothes in line, he'd tie me up and he'd shag me and I’d tie him up and shag him. Kinda didn't know what I was doing, but it was fun. Then I end up in San Francisco. And running around with people that would later be called the sex positive movement. I ended up meeting through somebody, a woman who had been working as a professional stage submissive in Japan.
Somehow I got introduced to her because I spoke Japanese and because she missed speaking Japanese. I remember these images with people tied up in woodblock prince, and in TV shows and it’s somehow in my cultural history and DNA. So naughty and exciting and familiar.
I spent some time learning from her, and I ended up learning from some of my teachers from Japan. Incorporating all of this and along the way to have fun and shag as well as performances. So that's how I came to meet people, be part of this, learn, practice, develop my own style.
Liz:
And now you teach people, you instruct people in course work for individuals and group classes, right?
Midori:
Yes. And not just rope bondage. Rope bondage is a small part of all that I teach. And I have my rope two day intensive and I have that. And I also have a three day intensive for women who are exploring their dominance called Forte Femme. I was asked in the late 90s that I was asked to write a book on this thing Japanese rope bondage that only a few people were doing.
So I ended up writing the first English language instruction book on Japanese bondage.
Liz:
That's amazing. What would be bondage 101? If I were taking your two day intensive dojo? What would be the first thing that you would break down to your students?
Midori:
Okay. The first thing that I would say, is eyes on person, eyes off hands or eyes off hands, eyes off ropes, eyes on person.
This means if you're focusing with your head tucked down and you’re focusing with what your hands are doing and what the ropes are doing, you're not paying attention to what your partner is feeling, experiencing. And if you're not noticing your partner, you're not having a shared passionate, sensual experience. You might as well just be doing mackramy.
Liz:
And that also plays in not being aware to someone’s level of comfort or safety or pain?
Midori:
Comfort, pleasure, safety but what about boredom?
Liz:
That's a good point.
Midori:
Yeah. There's absolutely we should focus on safety. But what about boredom. You can be safe ‘til the cows come home and have somebody bored. So they'd rather be out with the cows.
Liz:
So what would be, once you break down some of those things. What would be the easiest technique to try for a first timer?
Midori:
Okay. So a nice, short length of rope. Maybe 15 feet. Just tie the wrists together, right? In a simple two column tie and if the tie seems complicated.. simplify. The ties themselves are not the complicated part. People complicate that which is simple. And simplify that which is complicated. So tying knots. Look, if you can tie your shoelaces you got all the basic hand movement skills to be able to tie somebodies wrists together. Tie their wrists together and then have fun with your regular hot shagging. Now you have bondage.
Liz:
Is there any kind of.. does it matter what kind of rope you use? Or is it just up to personal preference?
Midori:
Totally personal preference. But if somebodys starting off new, id recommend cotton. Its soft, its easy, its nice on the skin, significantly less people are allergic to cotton. Whereas it'd be such a shame if somebody suddenly realized they were allergic to jut or hemp in the middle of hot bondage sex and their entire body turns into a giant welt.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Not sexy.
Midori:
No, not fun. I've actually seen people with complicated rope bondage patterned hives on their body.
Liz:
Easy give away.
Midori:
Right. Yes.
Liz:
I know what you've been up to.
Midori:
Yeah, right. So cotton is great its soft, it’s easy to approach, it easily holds a knot. And if you get body fluid on it cause lets face it, if you're successful with this and you're combining hot bondage and sex, your rope's gonna get messy. Sweat, drool, lube, cum, yeah.
Liz:
What are some of the most common mistakes you see with people that are trying out bondage for the first time?
Midori:
Focusing on the bondage and not focusing on the pleasure. Not focusing on co-creating excitement. So that's one. Common mistake is not giving all participants the opportunity to speak up for the needs for adjustments. Like "hey, can you make that a little tighter? Can you make that a little looser? Can my arm come out from underneath me?" Sometimes people or.. common position of Japanese rope bondage is the hands tied behind the back. Think back to romantic theater representation.. hands tied behind the back "ooh, prisoner."
But hands tied behind your back is a really uncomfortable position to shag in. If you're going missionary.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Midori:
After a while all you're gonna be thinking is ow, ow, ow. My wrist. Ow. Is it done yet? Ow. Oh my God. And that's not good. Right? And so all parties to have the opportunities to speak up for adjustments. And remember adjustments might be oh yeah tighter baby. That's an adjustment. As is hey, loosen it up a bit baby. It also goes in the other way like the person doing the tying. To say honey I know you want more complicated but I'm just wanting to keep it simple, and gain my confidence.. anyway you look really juicy right now so I've got your wrists tied up and can we just shag?
Liz:
So its like focusing on the accessories, right? Rather than the actual experience?
Midori:
Bingo.
Liz:
Cause I imagine some people could feel intimidated or caught up in "am I doing this right? Am I doing this right?"
Midori:
Right.
Liz:
And then you forget to be in the present.
Midori:
Exactly. And likewise I find that people that are receiving rope, because maybe there's been so much representation of the passive partner or the visual stillness of the rope bondage that they don't feel like they have agency to speak , right? To participate, where this is a participatory sport. It’s two people together, or more if you’re lucky, hey.
I think sometimes the people that have this idea like oo this is how its supposed to be. Although, I'm not really having fun. And for some people they may be so starved for intimacy, adventure, sensuality that they'll put up with a lot of boredom, tedium or discomfort just to get a little touch.
Liz:
Yeah we all crave that, right? As humans. That sense of touch.
Midori:
Yeah. Absolutely. And if we look at playing with rope bondage as a particularity sport where all parties get to collaborate in a portion of joy.
Liz:
Can you break down for us a little bit of what sub space is and after care and how that plays into rope work?
Midori:
After care is that which all participants need to regain equal lib ream. I think its common unfortunately for people to think after care is just for the person receiving rope or bottoming play. But if the reality is if seeing any sorta scene is enjoyed by people participating authentically, right? And fully and just having a righteous good time. Who's gonna be affected in that experience?
Liz:
Everyone.
Midori:
Exactly. And if everyone is affected in some manner and experiencing a change of state. Then who deserves to get to have a moment of gaining equilibrium?
Liz:
Everyone.
Midori:
Absolutely. And to think that somebody’s topping is unaffected and be able to trod off and drive a car and operate a forklift or walk across the street with their cognitive faculty fully restored is foolish. So if you have an experience good, bad, ecstatic or horrible in any direction, everybody gets to have what they deserve and optimal for their regaining equilibrium.
Now this is gonna vary person to person. So discuss ones need for after care in advance. So what if you and I were playing and you were somebody who wanted an intense degree of physical touch to come back to your equilibrium. And I'm somebody who needed intense agreement of alone-ness to regain my equilibrium. And if we didn't talk about this in advance, and we have an amazing scene and an amazing playtime. And that comes to an end and then I get up and walk away. How would you feel?
Liz:
I'd feel abandoned.
Midori:
And how would I feel if you were draped over me and touching me a lot if I were a "I need to be alone" person?
Liz:
Yeah you'd feel smothered.
Midori:
Exactly. Now what if instead we discovered this in advance and I said all right, I need to make sure that we're both gonna be okay afterwards. So here’s what I might do. I'm gonna spend some time with you, for your aftercare but in my head I'm gonna consider it part of my scene. At a certain point, I'm gonna have to leave. And it’s because we had a good time and I actually need to reintegrate.
Liz:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) so all this communication about it ahead of time. Which is interesting, cause if you take that idea of aftercare into an average, heterosexual, vanilla coupling to even amongst younger people maybe who are experimenting for the first time to maybe introduce this idea of pre-communication about aftercare. Like what do you need to feel safe after we engage in this scene? Fetish play? But any kind of sexual play.
Midori:
Absolutely. And safety is just part of it. Because I may feel gloriously, utterly safe, out of my mind with pleasure, and ecstatic and the world is bright and wonderful. Am I in a safe position to drive a car? No. Because I am post sex high as a kite. I may feel perfectly safe, but I'm not safe to the world.
Liz:
Did it take you a long time to learn that Midori? Was that something you were right from the bat conscious of? Or did you have some experiences where you had to get there?
Midori:
Oh, are you kidding? Everything I teach is based on things I've screwed up. And sometimes I'm lucky enough to get information from my friends who have royally screwed up. So everything I'm teaching not on theory but just on some glorious screw up. And let me tell ya, I got some stories.
Yeah. And a lot of it also has to do with brain chemicals as well. And the high and the pleasure from good sex can last 48 hours. And then when you come out of that you can have a crash and feel all sad.
Liz:
That's true. I'm sure. I've definitely cried after sex before.
Midori:
Right? Or like a couple days after?
Liz:
Yeah. I think we don't talk enough about the energy exchanged that happens with orgasm and also happens if you're being penetrated. It can be quite a lot to take on that energy within your field. And to know what to do with it.
Midori:
Yeah. For all parties, right. Yeah neurochemically we got a 48 hour range where we got an emotional, a physical, a neurological rollercoaster. So why shouldn't we? When we plan aftercare when we have major sporting experiences. Like if I do a marathon, I'm gonna pre plan that. Last year I hiked up Pike’s Peak. I had all sorts of aftercare planned. Where I'm gonna eat, how much water I'm gonna drink. I even gave myself an extra day to alternate down from the altitude. I planned all those things. And everybody thought its sensible and that is what I was advised. But why wouldn't we do that for our pleasure states?
Liz:
Yeah it sounds very practical when you put it in those terms.
Midori:
Yeah cause you know sometimes it’s a marathon. Sometimes it’s a jog down to the corner of the block. Sometimes its a big spectacular sex fest with bondage, and toys. And sometimes its quickie.
Liz:
It’s all the flavors.
Midori:
All the flavors. Yeah. And for each of those there's gonna be different wants of after care for all parties. Sometimes we might not know because nobodys asked us this. But we can have a good guess maybe when things worked out well, or didn't work out well.
So for me I totally need aftercare after topping and a couple days later, I need to go to the gym. That's what I do and then there's immediate after care, that ill need with the person. But I also know a couple days later I'm gonna hit a funk if I don't get to the gym. Now do I need somebody else for that? No. I just need to get my own butt to the gym.
Liz:
That requires a consciousness of a high degree in your own body and its needs which I don't know if we're culturally conditioned to tune into that much. I think a lot of times we're engaging in sex and that doesn't mean sex in a particular style or format as a way to sort of escape our bodies. Right? Instead of being super tuned in to what we need, and what we're feeling and how we can take care of ourselves.
Midori:
Right. And I think if we start looking at this similarly in how we engage in our other leisurely activities, intensely activities like sport. And how we take care of ourselves and draw more parallel to them. It makes a lot more sense.
Liz:
What are you still learning about sex?
Midori:
Oh my God. What am I not learning about sex? Well let’s see. So much. Recently I've been having some conversations with intersex activists and they've been teaching me new things. Because my body configuration is that I've not been aware of what other peoples experiences and likes so that's really neat. What else am I learning? On a personal level I'm finding myself to go more for quality instead of quantity. Right? Because when I was young I was like any sex is good sex. Oh my God, yay!
Whereas I'm finding that is like okay, what am I truly hungry for? And if I have an opportunity to go to a sexually social event, I may actually spend more time specializing and having deep conversations with people than taking opportunities. I mean if the opportunities good I'm not gonna turn it down. But if the opportunity is mediocre or poor, I’d rather have a nice conversation.
Liz:
So flowing with your evolving sexuality is where you're at right now.
Midori:
Yeah and then also learning to refrain my assumptions by talking to people who are not me.
Liz:
Yeah that's important, right? With everything that we do.
Midori:
Which is the work you're doing.
Liz:
I mean I'm trying, that's really the point of this show. Right? Is to take information from people with very different back grounds and view points and experiences around sex, health and consciousness and understanding how you can integrate that into your own life.
Midori:
It’s fantastic and I'm really appreciating the really good questions and the space you've given me to just blather on about the stuff. Because seriously, I don't get a lot of opportunities to go into depth around the culture relativism and the historical perspective of the stuff you've been asking. It’s really nice. Thank you.