Asa Akira: The Adult Film Biz, Motherhood & Sex Drive
Podcast Transcript Season 2 Episode 29
Interviewer: Liz Goldwyn
Illustration BY Black Women Animate
This week’s podcast features Asa Akira—legendary porn star, podcaster, author, PornHub ambassador—and a new mom. Asa has performed in over 500 films, is known as the queen of anal, and in 2013 became the second Asian person ever to win AVN’s Performer of the Year award. Asa and Liz talk about her pregnancy and postpartum experiences and how they affected her sex drive; what it means to be a MILF; and how she’s navigating and winning the shifting landscape of the adult biz.
The following is a transcript of the interview from the episode:
Liz:
Thank you for talking to me. I'm so excited about this. I'm really fascinated with your mind. The way that I fall in love with people, friends or otherwise is if they give me a really good book to read, or suggest something great to listen to. And so far, you're two for two with the job. With the Jon Ronson podcast, The Butterfly Effect, which I totally want to get into. But also this book you recommended, The First 40 days about postpartum care for mothers and the fourth trimester. I'm just devouring it. It's so interesting. I'm so curious.
Asa:
It is, right?
Liz:
And so are you on porn maternity leave? Are you back out there? Because I know you just went and did a trip in Europe, right? For Pornhub.
Asa:
I did. So Pornhub was sponsoring a party for the Gumball. And I flew out to Ibiza. I technically sort of took a maternity leave and I'm still kind of on it. I don't know, it's kind of a weird thing. I took a hiatus from the podcast I think in the last month of my pregnancy, and then I just started it back up about a month ago. And Pornhub's actually been super cool about accommodating me and my baby, and everything. They're pretty much just kind of oh like, "Oh yeah, whenever you're ready to come back, come back." Even with the Ibiza trip I was like, "Hey, I'm still breastfeeding. Do you think you could bring me another person to take care of my baby and my baby out?" And they were totally cool with it.
So yeah, I've been transitioning back into work very slowly. And it's been very smooth and easy. And actually, I shot all throughout my pregnancy on my Modelhub page and my premium Snapchat. And then after I gave birth, I think I took about six weeks off from that and then I just slowly went back into that as well. So I've been having a very easy and smooth transition.
Liz:
So you didn't feel like I want to just take time off, I don't want to work at all? It's so crazy that in most of the world there's paid maternity leave obviously, which in the US we're very far behind on. And I can't imagine that from the adult industry, from what I understand it and from most of the people who run the big companies are men are not really thinking about these things. In the DNA of the way they build their companies.
Asa:
I kept saying even when I first got pregnant, I kept saying to my husband I cannot believe that women are expected to go to work like this. If it were a sickness or if it were anything other than a pregnancy like a fever, you would get a paid sick day. And it was so much worse than just a fever in the beginning. Then after I had the baby, I absolutely did not want to go back to work. And it was a little scary for me because I think a huge part of my identity I'm finding lately is my work. And I think porn and the porn industry, I guess my "persona" has been such a big part of my life for the last decade plus.
So now all of a sudden I had the baby, I did not want to go back to work at all. All I could think about was the baby. I just wanted to be with him. And that was really scary to me because I had this I guess an identity crisis of well, who am I if I don't want to work? It took me a while to be okay with. Then eventually that did pass. Now I'm in a place where I do want to be working. But at the same time, if I had a normal nine to five office job, I wouldn't be ready for that at all. And I'm already four and a half months out, which is longer than what most women I think correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's longer than what most women get for maternity leave anyway.
Liz:
Well in France and in England they can take, in France they can take 100%. And it's actually in the book you recommended to me, The First 40 days. The author Heng Ou, is that how you say her name? Heng Ou?
Asa:
I think so yeah.
Liz:
Yeah, it's such a good book. She has a little thing about maternity leave around the world. And I think in France, people got 100% of pay for up to a year. I think in London or in England I think it's six months and maybe for the first three months you get 100%. And then after that it's 40%. So four and a half months is not that much. When you just imagine what you've put your body through and the whole identity crisis. I would be worried if you weren't having one. Because that's such a huge life shift that I think we-
Asa:
Yeah and it's also crazy because it's on every level, right? One, the baby requires a lot. I mean, which is obvious. But at three, four months, I was still breastfeeding around the clock. I was up all night. There's a lot that the baby needs. And then on top of that, my body was still recovering. And then on top of that, there's the emotional aspect. So I just can't see how this would be enough time. I really can't fathom it.
Liz:
Yeah. And especially in what you're, in your line of work as well, that must be just such a big transition with your body changing. As you said, you were filming throughout your pregnancy and then thinking about that post-pregnancy. What does that all mean? You have a totally different set of circumstances then let's say, someone who's an actor in front of the camera because you're revealing literally everything.
Asa:
Yeah. I'm in a really fortunate position now where I shoot my own stuff. So I just shoot amateur style. I shoot everything myself, and then I upload it to either my Modelhub page or my private Snapchat. And I'm really lucky that I can do that on my own terms. And I can shoot myself from the angles that I like. I can work when I'm horny. Whereas if I were shooting mainstream porn for big studios and just basically what I did for the first 10 years of my career, I would not be ready right now to go back. There's no way. I keep telling people my body right now, I'm at a place where I'm comfortable enough to wear a bikini and take pictures of myself. But a candid photo, hell no.
Liz:
Not something you don't have control over.
Asa:
Right. Exactly. And also the work I'm doing right now I can do from home. So I'm really lucky. I can do everything from home, and I just can't ... even working out and stuff, I just can't imagine leaving the house like that right now.
And everyone's different. I'm sure a lot of women are like, "Get me out of here." But for me, I don't know, I'm still very much I want to be home or I want to be near my baby.
Liz:
Yeah. I think that's super normal. Super normal. Did you find that your sex drive changed a lot throughout your pregnancy and post pregnancy?
Asa:
It was a roller coaster. So in the beginning of the pregnancy I was so sick, the last thing I wanted to do was have sex. But then eventually, I got the horniest I've ever been in my life. So for me, throughout the pregnancy I was both the horniest and the least horny that I've ever been. And then after the baby, obviously I was in recovery and I gave just a regular vaginal birth.
Liz:
Congratulations.
Asa:
Thank you. Yeah, I definitely wasn't even thinking about sex for a while. And I don't know. Now I think I've leveled out. I wouldn't say ... my sex drive is pretty much where it was at before I had the baby now. It's not in either extreme, I guess.
I will say, sex is a little bit different. My clit is way more sensitive now. And I come a lot easier from clitoral stimulation now. And before I was definitely more of a penetration person. So that's a little bit different. I don't know, I guess other than that it hasn't been that different.
Liz:
We actually get a lot of user questions that are around sex drive and pregnancy, and postpartum. And I would love to ask your professional advice. So one of them was someone asked, "I haven't been able to come come, a really good orgasm with my partner since having my baby, even though she was a C-section. And many times we're too tired to really experiment. Any recommendations how to get back there?"
Asa:
Oh man. I mean in this arena, I've been really lucky. So I actually come easier since the baby. But I definitely understand the being too tired to even try. I completely understand that.
I don't know that there's really any advice I would give on how to ... I'm trying to imagine, I think The Cosmopolitan or the magazine answer would be, "Go on a date, make time for yourselves." Be romantic or whatever. But honestly, I think my personal advice would just be I don't know, be easy on yourself. And I don't think there is that much pressure to jump into being sexual right away. Just because I think, I don't know. I think your body knows best when it comes to stuff this. I don't know, rushing your body into being sexual just feels gross to me. I think you should be horny on your own terms I guess.
Liz:
That's a really good response. And that's interesting too because as you were saying that you could come really easy, or sorry, you had trouble coming easily before and now it's all about clit stimulation. So also being gentle with yourself that it may take some experimentation of different types of stimulation to figure out what's going to work now. Because not only is your body changing, especially with a C-section, which you may have will affect your nerve endings and your hormones obviously. Yeah, you might need to try some different things and not expect that you're going to come from that.
Asa:
And also for example, one thing I've been really scared to try, and I haven't even tried since having the baby is anal sex. Anyone who's followed my career knows that I specialize in anal sex. That's also a big part of my identity. But I've been really scared to try it since having the baby. Because I feel like my whole system is working so differently, that something I was very confident in before. Now, not so confident. And I feel like I'm going to have to learn my body all over again and see what works, what doesn't work as far as anal sex goes. So that, I'm still on that journey.
Liz:
Well, speaking as being an anal queen. In Insatiable, you foreshadow pregnancy and longing for motherhood a lot in your two memoirs, Insatiable and Dirty Thirty. But you are talking in Insatiable about, "Sometimes women shit while giving birth. If I ever give birth, I'm going to clean my ass out with an anima the second I go into labor." So I would love to know what your prep was, and what you suggest because these are not things that we talk about. We talk about, "It's so great you're having a baby." But no one's like, "Okay, what about the" ... same thing with anal sex I feel like. You need to talk about the shit right up front.
Asa:
It's true. It's true. First of all, I totally forgot I had said that. And it's one of those things where everything I said before, I'm like, "God, how idiotic." Because let me tell you, the second I went into labor, the last thing I was thinking about was doing an enema or cleaning out in any way. It was more of my water broke and then I was just in a panic for the next 24 hours because everything.
So that was still my biggest fear though. And I was really, really paranoid about that. And my husband was in the delivery room with me. I had told him for months and months and months. I was like, "Listen, no matter what, you can't look. Just stay by my head and don't look no matter what." Because I didn't want to ruin I guess the fantasy of my vagina for him.
But he promised he wouldn't look, but he did. And I think his explanation was, "I couldn't not look." He was like, "There was a baby coming out of your vagina. I couldn't not look." And I guess in hindsight, I can understand that. I guess it's a train wreck and you can't look away, or the opposite.
And I asked him if I did shit while I was giving birth, and he says no. But to be perfectly honest, I don't think that he would tell me if I did because I was so paranoid about it. And I think he's a gentleman enough that he's just swearing up and down that I did not.
But the experience of giving birth and the things that I felt, I can totally see why most of us do shit while giving birth. Because it's just a lot of pushing, and it's like I can't really imagine a scenario that I didn't. And also, a lot of people told me, they were like, "You're not going to care once you're giving birth. That's going to be the last thing on your mind." And that was actually very true. I was so exhausted. It was so painful, there was so much going on. That at that point, all vanity went out the window I guess. And also there was a lot of I just want my baby to come out safe and okay.
So yeah, there was a lot of that. I really didn't care I guess in the end. Which was unimaginable to me before. And now I'm like, "Oh yeah, okay." It's not as big of a deal as I thought.
Liz:
I do know a lot of civilian women, however, that do have done enemas before. By civilian, I mean not in the adult field. That have done enemas before birth and were also super paranoid about it. And if anyone wants good enema stories, both of your books actually go into a lot of detail about how you prep for anal sex on camera, which is a whole other ball of wax. Right?
Asa:
Totally. When I have anal sex at home, I'm not quite as extensive. Obviously when I'm shooting porn, first of all, the anal sex lasts a lot longer. It's about 30 minutes long, which I don't know, I think that's a little bit longer than just regular at home sex. And then also, because it's a performance, we're opening up at certain angles, and the camera looks deep into your anal cavities. And there's a lot of stuff that goes on that doesn't go on at home that I want to make sure I'm super clean for.
So yeah, when I would prep for anal porn shoot, I would clean my ass literally starting 24 hours before the shoot. And then I would watch what I eat. I also took this stuff called psyllium husk, which is just an all natural supplement that you can get at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. It's like a fiber, but I don't know, it makes it really easy to clean out. So I would take that for a few days before the shoot.
Now, I'll do a quick rinse with an enema and I'll still take the psyllium husk. And now I use a bidet. Which is a total game changer by the way. I don't know, it's just it's a lot, I'm definitely relaxed with the whole prep, but I still do some for sure.
Liz:
One other thing that you talk a lot about in both of your books besides Longing for Motherhood, which I took so many notes and it's very much throughout both books when you're thinking about how busy moms are, that it's like a full time job. That it should be a paying gig you say.
Asa:
I definitely stand by that.
Liz:
You're also talking about, you had a different husband at the time of Dirt Thirty and Insatiable, but you're talking about imagining what pregnant sex would feel. The other thing that I found very interesting and I'm wondering how you're dealing with it now through the process of pregnancy and postpartum is you talk very openly about body dysmorphia and food. And your relationship with food, and dieting, and binging on pizza, and then having salads. I'm curious, the process of growing another human inside you did that. How did that affect this sort of lifestyle that you'd built up for I imagine since you were probably a teenager?
Asa:
It actually wasn't since I was a teenager. Weirdly, I feel like my body dysmorphia kicked in ... I think it's a combination of moving to Los Angeles, which is a very body conscious, weird culture out there. And then also just starting in porn and seeing myself on camera, also reading what other people have said about my body and never being the perfect body for everyone, I guess. A lot of that happened at once for me.
It's interesting. When I was pregnant, I was the most comfortable with my body I've ever been in my entire adult life. Because I think I was so focused on just wanting to have a healthy baby. It was weirdly very relaxing. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I didn't care about being skinny. I'm sure one aspect of that is probably the fact that I wasn't being photographed or videoed really. Except for on my own terms. I was only just shooting my own videos. But I wasn't really doing public interviews, or even going to events, or having to fit into this dress, or whatever.
So there was partly that, but then there was also just I really just started seeing my body as I just want to nurture this being inside of me. I don't know, I had zero anxiety about my body. Which felt awesome. And it's funny because I was like, "Oh my God, this is the new me. This is great. I feel so awesome and positive about my body." But of course shortly after I gave birth, it all came back.
Liz:
Really?
Asa:
Yeah. I was hoping it would last. I had a feeling it might come back. It's back. Although not as much. I'm still breastfeeding, so I am still really conscious of I still want get a lot of fats and taken a lot of calories. But I have found myself like, "Oh man, I need to start working out." It's creeping back for sure.
Liz:
Well there's this whole culture with yummy mummy culture, right? That you're supposed to immediately appear post-birth with high heels, and a flat stomach, and a toned body. It's a race to see who can have the best post baby bod.
Asa:
It's kind of crazy. I feel really lucky that I didn't feel that way immediately postpartum because that would've devastated me. I mean first of all, I found this out before I gave birth, thank God. But I guess right after you give birth, you still kind of look pregnant. Which I think a lot of people don't know. You think the baby comes out and your stomach is flat again. Or maybe just a little pudgy. But no, I looked full on pregnant still for a few days.
And then, I don't know. Postpartum is, it's pretty unattractive. I was wearing a diaper for two weeks. I think I wore it for longer than I needed to, but I just got so comfortable with it. But yeah, it's not attractive. I feel lucky that my husband, he was really supportive. He was very good at telling me how beautiful I was and how proud of me he was for having our baby. I still felt beautiful in his eyes, and that was enough for me. Even though I wouldn't say I was conventionally attractive in any way.
Liz:
Yeah, you can really see how this postpartum depression and anxiety, all of these issues creep in. And again, going back to the first 40 days, it was interesting in the foreword to the book because she's really talking about don't feel this pressure to exercise. It's actually better for you not to move around too much. And don't think about calories and dieting. You need your body needs all this stuff. And treating the person giving birth as gentle as one would treat a baby. And I think as human beings, right, we need a lot of that reminding throughout our life to treat ourselves the way we would treat a baby because we are hard on ourselves in those expectations.
Asa:
Totally. Yeah, that was the cool thing about that book is I think it gave me the permission to just take it easy. I have a hard time doing that as it is. I have a lot of guilt when I'm not doing everything. So reading the book really ... this sounds an ad for the book, and it's really not. I read it and loved it. Yeah, it gave me the permission to just relax. It reminded me I was a patient, I guess you could say.
Because you put your body through this crazy thing and it's true. No one really talks about how the mom is actually recovering. And then on top of while you're recovering, your baby is sucking these nutrients out of your body. So yeah, I definitely recommend it to anyone having a baby.
Liz:
So now you're officially a MILF.
Asa:
Yes.
Liz:
What does that mean? Is that the genre that you're going to be put in or you'll put yourself in? How does that work?
Asa:
So it's a weird thing because I think in porn, the category MILF doesn't necessarily abide by the technical definition. For example, Lisa Ann, the OG MILF doesn't even have a kid, right? But we see her as the MILF.
So I think will Pornhub put me in the MILF category? I don't know. I don't know that I fall into the criteria. For example, I don't think my boobs are big enough to be an official MILF.
Also, it's a weird thing. You don't really see Asian milfs. In porn, everyone falls into a search category. And yeah, it's objectifying, but it's how we do business and it's how we gain fans. So I think I fall, probably as an Asian performer, I think I still fall under the Asian category before I fall into the MILF category, if that makes sense.
But I myself am going full force forward with the MILF thing. And it's mostly because I think I spent a lot of time pondering about do I want to be really open with the fact that I had a kid or not? The more time progressed and the more I thought about it, it angers me that when it comes to motherhood and sexuality, we either over sexualize women with terms like MILF, or we completely cease to see them as sexual beings at all. You have to pick one extreme or the other.
I don't know, I wish it were more normalized. Just because you've had a baby, it doesn't mean you cease to be a sexual being. So I just wanted to move forward with the term MILF and just make it as normal as possible, I guess. Yeah. Now it's my mission to be like, "Yeah, I had a baby. But guess what? I'm still super horny. I'm still a porn star." I'm still a woman, I guess.
Liz:
But a lot of that recontextualizing what that means is you being in control of the content that you put out around that idea, right? Not sort of just appearing in front of the camera with in scenarios that other people have conceptualized.
Asa:
Totally. And porn is in this very strange and exciting place right now I think. With platforms Modelhub, and OnlyFans, and the Snapchat thing, it's this really weird thing because I think a lot of people would say it's ruining porn. But at the same time, I think it's pushing it in this uber feminist direction where anyone can produce their own content. Anyone can make money and royalties off their own content. We don't need the middleman of a big studio or producer, usually a man, taking basically the entire cut of our money.
Because in mainstream porn for anyone that doesn't know, in mainstream porn, we go to set. We get paid for the day depending on whatever sex act or whatever dialogue or time we put into it. And then you don't see money ever again from that shoot, which is fine. That's the agreement, and I'm totally not talking shit about that system at all.
Liz:
You don't get any backend the way that the top, the way that Tom Cruise or Charlize Theron would get?
Asa:
Exactly. And to me honestly, that's okay because that's what we signed up for. I'm not mad about that at all. But at the same time, I think this is so much cooler that I get to be in control, and I get the bigger cut of my content. I can control my image, I can control what's out there of myself. I feel really lucky that I'm in this position right now and in porn at a time where this is happening.
Liz:
And going back to the other recommendation you made for me, which I think listeners would find interesting if they're interested in what's happened in porn in the last 15 years is Jon Ronson's The Butterfly Effect the first season. Because it really goes into, for example, genres. These categorizing people by genres didn't really happen until you had the explosion of porn on the internet. You had of course sub genres of porn when it was on VHS, but it wasn't as specific.
Asa:
Definitely not. Yeah no. It was more like if anything, you would have a movie of five very different looking big-titted women. But it was definitely not as specific as it is now.
Liz:
And then what I'm slightly confused about now, because I know you have a deal with Pornhub, you used to be with Wicked Pictures, which is a big studio. The kind you were just talking about, the Paramount of, they're like the Paramount of the adult world basically. So Pornhub, if you have content that you produce and you put it on Modelhub, or OnlyFans, or Snapchat Premium. Does that still end up on Pornhub? And how do you get money from that?
Asa:
So the way Pornhub works is if I make my own content and put it up on Pornhub, there's a few different ways I can make money from that. I can either make money per click. So if I upload a video for everyone to watch for free, I can get paid money per click on, which is exactly like YouTube. I can also choose to upload content to Pornhub and make it a paid video. So people pay to see the video. Like I guess clips, selling clips.
Then I also have something called Fan Club, which is on Modelhub. And it's basically a subscription service. Kind of like Netflix where people pay a monthly fee, and I upload videos whenever I want. And then they get unlimited access to my videos for the month.
So there's a few different ways to make money. And then with the Snapchat thing, basically people just subscribe to my Snapchat, which I update daily. And they can follow me that way.
I think it's really interesting because I loved that podcast by the way, The Butterfly Effect. A lot of people are calling it the anti-Pornhub podcast. I thought they did a pretty good job with staying objective about what's going on in the porn industry. But they definitely did show more stories that were I guess anti tube sites. And it's what I was talking about before is of course the producers are upset with tube sites. Of course. There is a lot of stolen content on there being given away for free. But also, we have the ability to if we ... shit, this is horrible, but I forgot what the term is called. There's a button on Pornhub where you click it and you can email them and just tell them to take anything down. And if you own the content, they'll take it down right away.
So I don't know, it's this weird thing where yeah, there is a lot of stolen content on there. And that is really, really a pain in the ass to get if you're a big time producer. But it's also helping more performers on an individual level. Now we're able to be the producers, and we don't need the middleman. So it's definitely not a perfect system where everyone can be happy, but I am very thankful for it personally as a performer who's able to now produce her own stuff.
Liz:
We've actually heard from other guests, upcoming guests on the show including a very high profile lawyer who works specifically on revenge porn cases, that Pornhub has been very helpful in getting links down. And what's interesting to me about The Butterfly Effect and this whole conversation about where porn is now. I think yes, of course the porn going online has done a lot to erectile dysfunction, to teaching kids about choking when they're not even having sex yet. And all of these things. But it's this idea like let's stop pornography or let's stop prostitution. That's ridiculous. It exists. The internet exists, you're not going to put it back in the box. It's the same thing with social media, right? I just think we have to look at the system and look at who's building the system. We need to diversify those systems going forward.
Asa:
Especially now that I have a kid, I do think about things like wow, what is his first porno experience going to be? I do think about for example, personally, I love rough sex. And a lot of the porn I've done and shot over the course of my career has been really rough sex. I love gang bangs. I love getting choked. I love getting slapped. And of course, nobody gets to see the behind the scenes of that where we have the conversation before the shoot. What I want to do, what I'm into, what they're into.
Personally, I don't think the problem is with the porn that we're shooting. I think it's great that we show the whole spectrum of sexuality. But I think the problem is if we had better sex ed, I don't think people would look to porn to learn about sex. The 10 year old boy that has already learned about sex and consent, and different people have different tastes just like in food, or movies, or anything else. I think that's the kid that's not necessarily going to look at gang bang porn and think that is what all sex should look.
So I think we as a society need to do better with sex ed rather than pointing our fingers at porn and being like, "We shouldn't show that kind of porn." Because those are sexual fantasies that really exist, and I think it's good to normalize all kinds of sex.
Liz:
It's about teaching porn literacy. And you know what? I think you and I, when we last had a conversation, you were saying that you were concerned about the stigma for your son growing up when he learns about what your career is. How other parents are going to react to that and what that's going to do with him letting kids come to your house. I think probably you, Nina Hartley, Jessica Drake, I mean there's so many people that are in your space that are doing a great job of speaking openly about sex. And particularly, Jessica does a lot of sex education. I met her through UCLA when she was lecturing there. But I think the education system, the traditional education system will have a tough time letting people in your field come in and teach classes regularly, which is what should happen.
Asa:
Totally. It's kind of a double edged sword because I do tell people all the time, I'm not a sex educator and I did not get into porn to be one. But at the same time, I have to recognize that this is where kids are getting, a lot of kids are getting their first taste of sex ed with porn. I guess I didn't sign up for it, but I am more conscious of it now. I'm so thankful for people like Jessica and Nina that ... like Jessica is I think a certified sex educator, literally. Yeah. I think that's so wonderful for all of us in the world.
Liz:
How are you going to address talking about, because that was another episode of The Butterfly Effect was I can't remember who the adult star was or adult actress. But she's talking about her daughter finding out from other kids about her career and feeling like she wishes that she had had that conversation with herself.
Asa:
Shit. I don't remember who it was either, but it was someone pretty well known. I can't remember either. But yeah, I think about this all the time, and this is one of those things kind of enema-ing before going into labor. I'm sure whatever I say now I'll look back and think, "That was so ignorant," or whatever. But right now, I'm really hoping that rather than the actual conversation itself, I think about how I'm going to raise him up until that point, I guess. I don't know what the exact conversation will look, I guess is what I'm saying. But I want to raise him in a way where he is open-minded, not judgemental. He realizes that naked bodies are sexual when we choose them to be sexual. That sex is a perfectly healthy and normal thing that almost every single person on Earth does.
So I'm hoping that I can give him the stems and the legs first, and raise him in a way where he'll be more understanding of why I chose sex work. While there may be a lot of people in the world who are not okay with it or judge it. Why I myself am okay with it and why ... I would really to normalize sex for him.
Liz:
Yeah. It might not be a case of ... I think a lot of it will have to do with other people and other people's judgments as opposed to you doing a good job as a mother and a teacher.
Asa:
I think the scariest thing is the other parents for me. I definitely do think about how my kid is ... there's probably going to be at least one instance of where my kid's friend is not allowed to come to our house, or have a play date with him at our house because of who I am and what I've done as a career. It would be a lie to say I'm completely prepared for that, because I don't know what I'll do in that scenario. I am playing it by ear, but I'm just hoping that I can lay the groundwork right.
Liz:
I'm sure you will.
Asa:
Oh thanks.
Liz:
So as an entrepreneur and author, in front of the camera, behind the camera, and now having a child who you're financially responsible for. How does that affect the way you look at your career and the decisions that you're making in terms of your lifespan in porn and the projects that you see yourself doing?
Asa:
Well I was lucky enough to start porn when I was 23, which is incredibly young. But at the same time, you have to remember a lot of girls get in the day after their 18th birthday.
So by 23, I had already had a few jobs. I had already made money, lost money, that kind of thing. So by the time I got into porn, I was a little bit more financially responsible than a lot of women are, or a lot of people are just getting into the industry.
So I saved my money. I made a few investments, I bought some properties. So I feel pretty comfortable and I'm very lucky and fortunate in that way. So I would say to anyone out there doing porn, definitely pay your taxes and save your money. Because a lot of people don't. A lot of people were never taught to, so it's not even their fault. But definitely save your money. Definitely invest it.
I don't really have any plans on quitting shooting. And that's rather, more so than financial for me, that's more I genuinely love shooting porn and I love making porn. Ever since I was little, and I know this sounds crazy, but ever since I was a child, I've always been really fascinated with just sexuality. Without even knowing it was sex work, I was just so curious about sex work. I thought hookers and strippers were the most glamorous people.
So I don't really see myself ever leaving this space. It's definitely evolved. I think when I started out, I just wanted to be a porn star. I just wanted to be a performer, and that's it. And I do see myself maturing and growing up in this industry. And as time goes on, I do see myself wanting to be more of an advocate, a more of an activist. I do want to use my name now to normalize sex and porn, in general.
It's been a really cool thing. I just don't see myself leaving the adult industry. Because it's what I love. And I keep thinking, my cousin just recently told me, she has kids as well. And she was talking about how your kids will not really listen to anything you say, but they will absolutely watch and mimic everything you do. And for me, if I were to leave porn and leave this industry behind and just stop shooting just solely because of my family, I think I wouldn't be being true to myself. I think that that's something that's important to show my son. Just because other people say I should stop, that's not reason enough. And if I love doing something, then I should do it regardless of what society says.
Liz:
Yeah. 100%. I mean, is there a life expectancy for being on camera? For example, Nina still works all the time and she just turned 60. She looks amazing.
Asa:
Nina is definitely the exception and not the rule, so far. I think it would be unrealistic to say that any woman can enter porn at any age, and she will be able to make enough money to make a living, and see fame and success. I don't think that's realistic. Obviously Nina Hartley is a legend. So she has that on her side. And then also, I think Nina is a little bit of an outlier in that way. She's not the norm. Have you met Nina?
Liz:
We're friends, yeah. I love her.
Asa:
There's something, and I say this about Nina Hartley all the time, but there's something about her that's the most sexy. She'll even touch my arm, and it's like there's something about her that's just sex to me. And not even about age or anything. I just think that's very rare in a person. She's so special. So I think she's just very, very special. Is there an "expiration date?"
Liz:
Not necessarily one, not one that I think you set. It's maybe other people set for you or that's the norm now.
Asa:
Right. To be perfectly honest, I think there is a certain age where studios would stop hiring.
Liz:
What age is that?
Asa:
Man I don't know. I don't really know because I don't actually know the actual ages of most performers, but I would assume it's somewhere around 50. And I think that would also depend on ... as gross as it is, porn is a very visual thing. It is a vain industry. So I would imagine that it has something to do with how she looks as well.
Liz:
But then we need to have more older people porn.
Asa:
Absolutely. And I think to bring it back with these new platforms and the direction porn is taking right now, I think that's probably going to change. It's probably changing as we speak. Because now we are in control of the content. We as in performers. It's also this thing of I think probably 15 years ago, MILF was not a category even. You thought of a porn site and there was a very, very narrow kind of aesthetic I guess of what a porn star was. It was the Jenna Jameson look I guess. The blonde hair, big tits, skinny. And we have really expanded from that. And I think we're really realizing now that that's not necessarily the only thing people masturbate to. Yeah.
Liz:
Yeah it was interesting in that-
Asa:
I think it's probably evolving right now.
Liz:
I'm sure it is evolving. And another thing is Nina is an author as well. She wrote an amazing book called Nina Hartley's Guide to Total Sex. And I think you being an author, having a voice, a literal voice in your own hands I think does a lot to extend the longevity of your career in front of the camera. You see the same thing in Hollywood, right? It's not like there is a plethora of for women over 50. So those that are there have to carve that out and oftentimes are looking at other sources of income or industries to make a name for themselves.
Asa:
I think also with this new direction of porn, I think it's interesting because I think in order for a studio to hire you and really to get a lot of work from the studios, you do need a very big following and a big fan base. Whereas with these newer platforms, it's kind of like you don't really need that huge of a fan base. You really just need ... if you have 5,000 members, that's great. You know what I mean? It's not like you need millions and millions of fans, so this one studio can hire you. I don't know if that makes sense. You can totally make a living with just your core 5,000 fans, and that's it. You know what I mean?
I do think with things social media, it's really changed the game.
Liz:
You've been very successful with social media, and not gotten kicked off.
Asa:
Actually, that's not true.
Liz:
Oh really?
Asa:
I've kicked off of Instagram seven times.
Liz:
Oh wow. I've been kicked off three times. And all for showing, yeah. For showing vintage pinups art, 19th century paintings. Yeah. Ridiculous stuff. And they shadow ban our account The Sex Ed all the time. I get my personal account, which is verified on Instagram, shadow banned all the time. The double standards on Instagram is a whole other episode. What people are able to do. But if you're a woman and talking about female sexuality, it's a whole other story.
Asa:
Totally. Totally. If a woman posts it, it's not art. That's for sure.
Liz:
But if Dan Bilzerian does...
Asa:
Yeah, exactly. And on that note, how have you seen that documentary called Becoming Chaz?
Liz:
No, I haven't.
Asa:
It's about Chaz Bono and his transition. Yeah, he did a whole documentary following his transition from woman to man. There's this crazy part of the documentary where he goes in before ... so he was getting his breasts removed. So he was going in for the augmentation. And he's sitting in the doctor's office, and he takes off his bra, or shirt, or whatever. And they blur out the nipples. And then literally the next shot, he had gotten the breasts removed. Same nipples, just no fat inside the chest anymore. And they don't have to blur out the nipples. And it's like the craziest thing. It's like these are the same pair of nipples. It's just that if they're full of fat and "woman's breasts," then they have to be blurred out. But if it's a man's chest, it doesn't need to be blurred out. It's crazy.
Liz:
Yeah. Spencer Tunick, the artist who does the mass nude portraits, just did a demonstration, I think it was in New York, outside of Facebook headquarters, which owns Instagram. That was, everyone had pasties of male nipples over their breasts and vaginas. I'll text you a link. It was pretty great, but he had hundreds of people out there nude on the street laying down with these pasties.
And I think it was seven sort of well known men lent their nipples to the project. Andy Cohen from Bravo, and John Mayer. And I can't remember who else it was. Yeah, but just to exactly your point. Oh my gosh. I could talk to you forever. I could probably talk to you about Mark Spiegler for an hour, who's your manager and a big, big porn manager. But I got to ask you what you're still learning about sex.
Asa:
What I'm still learning about sex. I think on a personal level, my sexual tastes are ever evolving. And that in itself is something I'm constantly learning. I used to think that sexual preference or sexual taste was this thing. You're born with it and that's it. And that's what I'll like for the rest of my life. And since being in porn, I've found that it's not the case. It's more of an evolving thing. Sometimes it evolves into one direction and then it reverts back. Then it's just ever-changing. And I think I'm learning that that's a thing and I'm learning that that's okay. It's okay to change your mind about things, or have a flavor of the week. I guess I'm learning to learn that that's okay and normal, rather than pigeonholing myself into one thing and being like, "No, that's what I like. That's what I have to like forever." I don't know. The cool thing about sex to me is there's always something to be learned. Every time I have sex with someone new, every time I talk to someone about sex, I learn some. And that's really exciting to me. I think because it's a subject that's been taboo for so long and it still is, there's so much to learn.
Liz:
Well, I can't wait for your next book and to read all about what you've learned just in the last couple of years because I think that will be a great one. That will be a juicy read. Well thank you so much for talking to me. I want to talk to you again. I want to be friends with you. You're smart as shit. You're a great writer. I want you to send me any book recommendations or podcast recommendations that you think of. And vice versa of course.
Asa:
That's the new friendship, right? Is exchanging podcasts.
Liz:
Exchanging podcasts and books. Yeah. I like to read. So I love for anyone to give me a book to read as I'm telling you that's really how I fall in love with people's minds.
Asa:
Wait, there's a word for that. Isn't there-
Liz:
Sapiosexual. I'm a sapiosexual for sure. Yes. There's that John Waters quote. "If you go home with someone and they don't have books, don't fuck them."